From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Fri Feb 5 20:18:45 2010 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Fri Feb 5 20:18:55 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] ligers and tigons Message-ID: <978697.59749.qm@web110710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hio everybody! Yep, doing battle with the idiots again. As such, yet another request for information... on-list or off, please send me the name, location (person or zoo owning/holding), and age of any ligers or tigons currently alive, whether displayed or privately held. Please use this subject heading sans any group moniker so I can differentiate it from spam. Thanks in advance. Tim Fuller President, NEOPOA Bringing fire as the light of reason to mortals and morons for better than two decades. Check out http://www.neopoa.com and become a more informed pet owner. Be a snappy dresser and help animals too! - NEOPOA has an online shop at www.cafepress.com/neopoa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100205/511bea50/attachment.html From Jungletouch at comcast.net Sun Feb 7 17:37:45 2010 From: Jungletouch at comcast.net (Jungletouch) Date: Sun Feb 7 17:37:55 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Pedigree software Message-ID: <00b801caa84e$8d0e71d0$34678218@gary> Hi Guys, I am doing some research for a pedigree software program for exotics. I need to know what people are looking for that they would like included. i.e. species, colors, country origin etc. I know there are a ton of skunk, hedgehog, and sugar glider colors out there that will be included in this new exotics pedigree program. I would also need to know what other species have various color phases. I would also like to know if anyone would be interested in a program like this. I need to tally numbers to see if it is even viable before I spend money having an exotics software program made. Its not cheap. LOL Currently, I will be launching a website for domestics and hybrid cats. Servals and Jungle Cats are already included in this program and any exotic cats species can be added easily. Part of the reason for making the exotics pedigree software program is to help track what is related to what. With all the new laws and bans, we need to keep a good grasp on this to ensure genetic diversity. Gary 707-501-9649 Jungletouch@comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100207/574503e5/attachment.html From Jungletouch at comcast.net Mon Feb 8 17:52:06 2010 From: Jungletouch at comcast.net (Jungletouch) Date: Mon Feb 8 17:52:16 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] RE: Pedigree software Message-ID: <02c701caa919$b8547620$34678218@gary> Hi Guys, I know exotic people like to look the other way, but I would really like some input here. I am doing some research for a pedigree software program for exotics. I need to know what people are looking for that they would like included. i.e. species, colors, country origin etc. Part of the reason for making the exotics pedigree software program is to help track what is related to what. With all the new laws and bans, we need to keep a good grasp on this to ensure genetic diversity. I know there are a ton of skunk, hedgehog, and sugar glider colors out there that will be included in this new exotics pedigree program. I would also need to know what other species have various color phases. I would also like to know if anyone would be interested in a program like this. I need to tally numbers to see if it is even viable before I spend money having an exotics software program made. Its not cheap. LOL Currently, I will be launching a website for domestics and hybrid cats. Servals and Jungle Cats are already included in this program and any exotic cats species can be added easily. Gary 707-501-9649 Jungletouch@comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100208/772339fe/attachment.html From chufff at aol.com Tue Feb 9 08:26:42 2010 From: chufff at aol.com (chufff@aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 9 08:27:33 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] RE: Pedigree software In-Reply-To: <02c701caa919$b8547620$34678218@gary> References: <02c701caa919$b8547620$34678218@gary> Message-ID: <8CC77AB08F2F941-2870-850D@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> I believe that AZA uses existing software for their studbooks. -----Original Message----- From: Jungletouch To: felines-l@catbox.com Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 6:52 pm Subject: [FEL-L] RE: Pedigree software Hi Guys, I know exotic people like to look the other way, but I would really like some input here. I am doing some research for a pedigree software program for exotics. I need to know what people are looking for that they would like included. i.e. species, colors, country origin etc. Part of the reason for making the exotics pedigree software program is to help track what is related to what. With all the new laws and bans, we need to keep a good grasp on this to ensure genetic diversity. I know there are a ton of skunk, hedgehog, and sugar glider colors out there that will be included in this new exotics pedigree program. I would also need to know what other species have various color phases. I would also like to know if anyone would be interested in a program like this. I need to tally numbers to see if it is even viable before I spend money having an exotics software program made. Its not cheap. LOL Currently, I will be launching a website for domestics and hybrid cats. Servals and Jungle Cats are already included in this program and any exotic cats species can be added easily. Gary 707-501-9649 Jungletouch@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Felines-L mailing list Felines-L@catbox.com http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100209/9f1262c1/attachment.html From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 10 18:14:42 2010 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Wed Feb 10 18:13:55 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Facility looking for a cougar Message-ID: <380-22010241101442406@earthlink.net> Enclosure will be done Spring 2010. On public Display. If you know of one in need... dorichardson@kern.org Facility nameCalifornia Living Museum Laura Morin lmorin67@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100210/552ecb4e/attachment.html From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 10 18:15:26 2010 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Wed Feb 10 18:14:39 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Cougar.. Looking for Cub for that faclility... Message-ID: <380-22010241101526203@earthlink.net> Laura Morin lmorin67@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100210/28213723/attachment.html From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Mon Feb 15 17:31:44 2010 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Mon Feb 15 17:31:53 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] WI - Dells Resort Wants White Tiger Enclosure Message-ID: <480398.67858.qm@web110714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Kwyjibo http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/84412292.html Dells Resort Wants White Tiger Enclosure The Chula Vista Resort wants to build a white tiger enclosure in their lobby. Reporter: Zac Schultz Email Address: zschultz@nbc15.com Story 0 Comments function confirmAbuse(name,id) { if(name == "") { var name = "Anonymous"; } if(confirm("Report comment by " + name + " as abusive?")) { document.getElementById(id).submit() } } if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Top_Story_Ad']) document.write('');if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Top_Story_Ad']){ document.write(plpm['Top_Story_Ad']);} else { if(self['plurp'] && plurp['5912']){} else {document.write(''); } }if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Top_Story_Ad']) document.write(''); Font Size: Posted Monday, February 15, 2010 -- 5:09pm By Zac Schultz Wisconsin Dells: Outside the window in the Chula Vista lobby, all you see is white snow, but Mike Kaminski sees white tigers. "We plan on adding about 500-600 square feet right in this area. It will be a themed jungle habitat." if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']){ document.write(plpm['Mid-Story Ad']);} else { if(self['plurp'] && plurp['97']){} else {document.write(''); } }if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write(''); Kaminski is the CEO, and he's asking the Wisconsin Dells City Council for permission to build a tiger enclosure. "The habitat would become a permanent home for two of what we call the sub-adults; two years old and younger." The Chula Vista has something of a southwest theme now, but adding tigers wouldn't distract from their message, it would compliment their magic show. Jeremy Allen's Grand Illusion Show will be playing seven days a week this summer. "He works with cub white tigers in his show, so everything just started to develop from that perspective," says Kaminski. "It will be a big billboard for their magic show that involves smaller tigers yet too," says Mayor Eric Helland. He says the city has to approve a zoning variance for the animals. He says concerns over animal welfare and public safety have been addressed. "This is a creative idea and we're there for the public safety aspect of it. When we can merge both of them it works out well." "We're very excited about the opportunity," says Kaminski. Putting the tiger enclosure off the lobby gets them maximum exposure. "You'd be able to see it as you drive in and register. You'd be able to see it from lobby, and you'd be able to see it from some of the corridors, as well as waiting in the queue line for the magic show." Kaminski says they hope to have the tigers in place by the end of summer. He says they plan to use an animal service to rotate the tigers every six months. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100215/ea81e022/attachment.html From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Mon Feb 15 17:36:04 2010 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Mon Feb 15 17:36:14 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] WI - Tigers to go on view at Chula Message-ID: <239564.86059.qm@web110708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.wiscnews.com/wde/news/470786 Tigers to go on view at Chula By Kay James, Dells Events wde-news@capitalnewspapers.com In the wilds of Russia and Siberia, Siberian Tigers are rare, but visitors to Chula Vista will be able to see them, live and in person, if the Wisconsin Dells Common Council approves. The Dells Plan Commission Wednesday approved plans for a tiger enclosure at Chula Vista Resort that will complement Jeremy Allen?s illusions show that uses tigers. The enclosure will be by the lobby of the resort, and will have two juvenile tigers in it, according to the presentation at the meeting. Allen?s show uses other tiger cubs. The plans will also need approval by the city council on Monday. Meg Roback, an architect with Architectural Design Consultants, Inc., of Lake Delton, described the enclosure the two tigers will inhabit. It will be 500 square feet, with impact-resistant glass, adjacent to the hotel lobby. The walls will be engineered to contain the animals, she said. The keeper area behind the cage or enclosure will be double-doored, with secondary mesh doors, so anyone entering has a view of the area, she said. In addition, the enclosure will have a temporary holding cage with a lock where the tigers can be put when the cage needs cleaning or the animals need veterinarian care. The enclosure will comply with U.S. Department of Agriculture regulations on animal welfare, Roback said. Mike Kaminski, CEO of Chula Vista, said he has engaged Mark Schoebel, president of Animal Entertainments Inc., of Neshkoro, to provide the tigers for both the cage and the magic show. Schoebel also has the Timbavati Wildlife Park at Storybook Gardens in Lake Delton. Kaminski said Schoebel had more than 50 years in animal management and is licensed by the USDA. ?My insurance company is 100 percent confident? about the safety of the show and the habitat for the tigers, Kaminski said. Commission member Mike Freel said public safety is a big concern and he asked how long the tigers would be in the habitat before they would be rotated back to the park and others brought in. Schoebel said it could be six months or two months. If the tigers are fine, he said, there would be no reason to replace them. The cubs used in the magic show are kept at Timbavati and transported to and from the show. Freel and Police Chief Bret Anderson asked questions about the possibility of the animals escaping. ?Is there any possibility the animal could get loose and walk down River Road?? Freel asked. Schoebel said the ones in the show are either tethered or confined in a box. ?I have never had one totally disappear.? He also said that the USDA regulations require procedures and equipment for keeping the animals from getting loose and for what to do if they should be loose. ?I?ve never been seriously injured,? Schoebel said about the safety of working with the tigers. Then Mayor Eric Helland jokingly asked Schoebel what he considered serious. Helland said he had talked with the general manager of Circus World Museum in Baraboo about Chula Vista?s plans. The manager spoke highly of Schoebel and the plans for housing the tigers. The museum manager said Chula?s tiger housing was better than what it had for tigers, Helland said. Although the commission passed the motion approving the conditional use permit for the enclosure unanimously, it did add contingencies:? that the enclosure would continue to be inspected and licensed by the USDA and that the city had the right to review the permit on an annual basis if the city received complaints. The commission also reviewed a draft land use map for the city, which is to be part of its comprehensive plan. City Public Works Director Mike Horkan said some zoned areas on the map need changes and the city needs to indicate where certain projects might go if proposed. For example, Horkan said the city should have an area designated for multi-family apartments. Alderperson Dan Gavinski said the map contains an error. Gavinski, owner of the Original Wisconsin Ducks, said land owned by the Ducks along Highway A and the Wisconsin River should be zoned recreational rather than commercial. He said it was changed by mistake when the new zoning map was adopted. Horkan said other areas also need changing and all should be done at the same time. Helland asked commission members, Horkan and Assistant Public Works Director Chris Tollaksen to send around a list of concerns such as a site for a large apartment complex like the Woodland Park Complex near Wal-Mart in Lake Delton. That complex has 100 to 200 units. The commission will consider the future land use and zoning at its next meeting March 10. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100215/6eb2dec5/attachment.html From orion2185 at sbcglobal.net Tue Feb 16 17:09:16 2010 From: orion2185 at sbcglobal.net (Michael York) Date: Tue Feb 16 17:48:30 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Post to the group please Message-ID: Hello I am looking for information regarding the wire mesh used in zoos. Most popular use is with bird aviaries...but now it is being used for big cat enclosures as well. With this product from a distance the wire "appears to be invisible" and blends into the environment. Yet it is very strong and I have been told that it's very safe for the animals. More so birds, when they fly into it. I have found a couple of places online selling this product- please see links http://www.ropemesh.com/ http://www.liulinmesh.com/ The above two seam to be the "more legitimate" company selling to the public. Still have yet to figure out the cost of the material. I'm very interested in building several cages not only for my parrots & birds but thinking using it for the big cats as well. As there is not allot out there( that I can find) on pre-made cages for big cats. If anyone knows of some big cat cage resources..please let me know. Here is one place I have found http://www.lbarmranch.com/exanen.html I'm also looking for (and found a place on the net at one time) that sells panel form big cat arenas. Though this is of some interest- really looking for permeant enclosures. Back to the zoo wire mesh: My questions are: How do you construct a cage using this material? As I have visited a number of zoos and other area using this material. They always have steel cables "suspending" the wire over the enclosure. Other times there is a steel frame that the wire covers. But you never see how the attach the wire to the frame. About all I have seen is plastic zip ties- which is not a viable option. I have been told one way (for birds) is to dig a large trench around the perimeter of the cage area. You then place pipe down into the trench. The pipe then has hooks that are driven down into the ground that attach to the pipe. This area is the filled with concrete. Then additional hooks are tops are sticking out above the concrete (placed in before the concrete dries). The wire is then attache to the hooks with cables and turnbuckles ( to stretch and create tension on the wire) At least this is for the bottom of the cage. The sides of the cage never seam to have any support. They appear to just have the wire doubled over and wrapped together. As for the roof- it appears to be the same as the sides. With the exception there is usually a large metal post in the center of the cage. And steel cables seam to run off this post to keep the roof from sagging down. For big cats I would assume it's a different process. As the need to security and strength are of the upmost concern. Does anyone have experiences working with this product? or know where I can learn more about installing this product? I have also seen where they have cut holes to allow trees to go thru the wire. Not sure how they do this process. Again very interested in learning more and any help on the matter is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100216/9a821385/attachment.html From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 17 21:30:36 2010 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Wed Feb 17 21:29:44 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] cheryl Tuller.. Message-ID: <380-22010241833036843@earthlink.net> I need your current email.. :-) Laura Morin lmorin67@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100217/a3846223/attachment.html From marklevinson at earthlink.net Thu Feb 18 13:30:18 2010 From: marklevinson at earthlink.net (mark levinson) Date: Thu Feb 18 13:30:31 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] cheryl Tuller.. In-Reply-To: <380-22010241833036843@earthlink.net> References: <380-22010241833036843@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004701cab0d0$ce9c0ce0$6bd426a0$@net> marklevinson@earhlink.net From: Laura Morin [mailto:lmorin67@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:31 AM To: felines-l@catbox.com Subject: [FEL-L] cheryl Tuller.. I need your current email.. :-) Laura Morin lmorin67@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100218/05195845/attachment.html From catman at phonewave.net Thu Feb 18 16:56:28 2010 From: catman at phonewave.net (John Williamson) Date: Thu Feb 18 16:56:34 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] cheryl Tuller.. References: <380-22010241833036843@earthlink.net> <004701cab0d0$ce9c0ce0$6bd426a0$@net> Message-ID: <3FA225E6AFB6457D94194C32565919F6@JohnNew> YOU ARE REACHING TIGER TOUCH ONLY AT CATMAN@PHONEWAVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark levinson" To: ; Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [FEL-L] cheryl Tuller.. > marklevinson@earhlink.net > > > > From: Laura Morin [mailto:lmorin67@earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:31 AM > To: felines-l@catbox.com > Subject: [FEL-L] cheryl Tuller.. > > > > I need your current email.. :-) > > > > > > Laura Morin > > lmorin67@earthlink.net > > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Felines-L mailing list > Felines-L@catbox.com > http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l > From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Fri Feb 19 23:08:18 2010 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Fri Feb 19 23:08:29 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Fw: [petlaw] **Time Sensitive** Illinois Animals Need Your Help! Phone Calls Needed to Lawmakers Prior to Tuesday, Feb 23rd Message-ID: <583062.35231.qm@web110703.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Vicky wrote: From: Vicky Subject: [petlaw] **Time Sensitive** Illinois Animals Need Your Help! Phone Calls Needed to Lawmakers Prior to Tuesday, Feb 23rd To: pet-law@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 8:46 PM ? February 19, 2010 For all in Illinois and for those who can pass this info along to contacts in Illinois Phone Calls to Lawmakers Listed Below Needed Prior to Tuesday, Feb 23rd At this time, there are legislative bills in the IL House and Senate that will effectively take away our rights as animal owners to choose how we treat, and who we use to treat, our animal companions. As humans, we don't need referrals from an MD to select a dentist, seek a massage, get fitted for special shoes, have a Reiki or Healing Touch session, work with a personal trainer...and these new bills will affect our rights to choose training and care for our animals! They will require that we must use a Veterinarian to get a referral, and direct supervision from a Veterinarian, in order to select non-medical care for our animals. Full information is below from the Illinois Alliance for Animal Owners Rights organization. This group of animal owners from around the country, but centered in Illinois, came together to stop this type of legislation from passing in 2004. At that time we worked hard to raise the necessary funds to lobby against this freedom of choice restriction. Now, these revisions are being quicly ushered through in Illinois, and there is little time to act. Please take a few minutes to call and respectfully voice your opinion. Calls to lawmakers (listed below) need to be before Tuesday, February 23rd! Thank you! Carol ~~~~ All information below located at: http://iaaor. org/news. html Illinois HB5377 Veterinary Medicine Act Bill Introduced This bill, and it's companion bill SB3712, upgrading the 2004 Illinois Veterinary Medicine Act changes the wording of existing exemptions. The IAAOR is OPPOSED to the language changes to exemptions #8 and #15. Over the years, the veterinary profession in Illinois has tried to form a complete monopoly of its industry, keeping anyone who is not a licensed DVM from providing non-medical services for animals. In 2004 The Illinois Alliance for Animal Owners Rights, Inc. (IAAOR) was instrumental in the passage of Exemptions 8 and 15 to the 2004 IL Veterinary Medical Act. We currently understand this bill to be taking away the animal owner's rights to freely choose health care options for their animals. The text stricken has a line drawn through it. The text replacing it is underlined. Click here to read Illinois bill HB5377 : or http://tinyurl. com/ye98v8e The sponsor of the bill is Rep. Frank Mautino The Official IAAOR Position Paper on this Bill is HERE: http://iaaor. org/IAAOR- HB5377-Position- Paper-2010. pdf It contains a list of all legislators to call today! This bill is up for a hearing on Wednesday, Feb. 24, 2010. These legislators need to hear from you! When you contact these Illiinois legislators, please indicate that as an animal owner you oppose the profession of veterinary medicine taking away your responsibility to freely choose health care options for your animals without unnecessary veterinary intervention. This is a consumer choice issue. We also suggest each practitioner and animal owner elect to JOIN THE IAAOR for $25 per year. We do pay to have Illinois bills monitored. The IAAOR is continuing to review this proposed legislation to determine what action will be required. (NOTE: To find your legislators by your ZIP Code, visit the Illinois State Board of Elections Web site at: http://tinyurl. com/dtdr7 ) **Animal Caretakers and Animal Care Practitioners in Illinois** **Call These Lawmakers before Tuesday, February 23rd** House Bill Sponsor: Rep. Frank J. Mautino - 76th District (217) 782-0140 (815) 664-2717 Health Care Licensing Committee: Rep. Dan Reitz, Chairperson 217) 782-1018 (217) 782-0945 FAX Representative Brandon W. Phelps 217) 782-5131 (217) 557-0521 FAX Representative Angelo Saviano 217) 782-3374 (217) 557-7211 FAX Representative Elizabeth Coulson (217) 782-4194 (217) 782-7613 FAX Representative Greg Harris 217) 782-3835 (217) 557-6470 FAX Representative Eddie Lee Jackson, Sr. 217) 782-5951 (217) 782-8794 FAX Representative Ren?e Kosel (217) 782-0424 (217) 557-7249 FAX Representative Michael P. McAuliffe (217) 782-8182 (217) 558-1073 FAX Representative Kevin A. McCarthy (217) 782-3316 (217) 789-6250 FAX Representative David E. Miller 217) 782-8087 (217) 558-6433 FAX Representative Rosemary Mulligan (217) 782-8007 (217) 782-4533 FAX Representative Patrick J. Verschoore (217) 782-5970 (217) 558-1253 FAX Also the Sponsor of the Senate Bill 3712 Senator Michael Frerich (217) 782-2507 (217) 355-5252 ~~~~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: New Members 6 Visit Your Group Start a New Topic No mail - pet-law-nomail@yahoogroups.com ~~ Unsubscribe - pet-law-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ~~ Digests - pet-law-digest@yahoogroups.com MARKETPLACE Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green living Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100219/022db845/attachment.html