From Jungletouch at comcast.net Wed Apr 14 23:33:54 2010 From: Jungletouch at comcast.net (Jungletouch) Date: Thu Apr 15 00:05:16 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Carole Baskin-OT Message-ID: <01d201cadc54$db5ba3a0$9212eae0$@net> HI All, Here is a petition against Carol Baskins of Big Cat Rescue to get her placed cleaned up. Only 1000 signatures are needs to force USDA to get more involved and force her to clean up her place and her animal pens. It's time to take some action against Carol for once and her bigoted attitude. Please, please forward this email to ALL exotic list you can. The more signatures, the better. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/demand-the-usda-cleans-up-big-cat-rescue FYI...she is against hybrids too... Gary 707-501-9649 Jungletouch@comcast.net www.jungletouchexotics.com www.care-of-cats.com http://care-of-cats-oncilla.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100414/69ada6d4/attachment.html From lynxmond at aol.com Thu Apr 15 04:12:39 2010 From: lynxmond at aol.com (Alexander Kurtz) Date: Thu Apr 15 04:12:59 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Carole Baskin-OT In-Reply-To: <01d201cadc54$db5ba3a0$9212eae0$@net> References: <01d201cadc54$db5ba3a0$9212eae0$@net> Message-ID: <4BC6D887.1040009@aol.com> Hi everyone, well, concerning Big Cat Rescue... I have been volunteering there for over a year some 10 years ago, when it was still called Wildlife on Easy Street. I donīt know, how things have changed there since then and how USDA regulations have changed (since Iīm living now in Germany), but what I know is that some of the critics concerning the cages (and Iīm talking here about the construction and safety) are totally wrong or show some signs of not knowing about the construction itself. How do I know? I helped building some of them, not only at B.C.R. but also at a zoo in Oklahoma and a different animal facility there. And I have had seen what happens if a tree falls ontop of such a cage. So some facts of the page http://www.animalsluts.org/bigcatrescue_complaint_baskin.html are wrong and of a political and personal agenda. I know, that some have ... issues ... with Carole, which I wonīt comment on since I donīt know enough. So letīs stay with the cages and things I percieved while volunteering there, shall we? It is true, that there are no stakes on the cage. So to give it stability, it is first of all buried roughly 40-50 cm in the ground ( round about 1 1/2 feet). Secondly, the actual form of the cage with itīs bendings and round forms adds immensly to the stability. Just imagine taking a card of a card game and try having it standing on one of itīs sides. It wonīt work unless you have at least another card or.... you fold or bend that card. Could we have bend the cagewalls to a square form to achieve the same stability? Yeah, sure, but we wanted the cage to have round, organic, "natural" forms. Anyways, eventhough we have now the walls burried into the ground and brought them into form, we still need to add the top and some beams running along the top for support and giving the upper part of the cage stability. This whole cage is not a solid, "good and USDA certified" concrete and steelbar cage, like you still see at zoos throughout the country. But nevertheless it is as rigid and in my opinion better looking and less expensive and quicker build cage. In Oklahoma, I had seen a nearby 6 m high tree crash into such a cage during a serious thunderstorm. The top and one side of the cage did get deformed, but none of the hog rings did jump off nor did the cage get pulled out of the ground nor did we have a hole in the cage. One hog ring is indeed week and cannot withstand a huge force. A different option would be to weld the joints. Thatīs why the sidepanels are overlaping by quite some ammount and there are at least 2 rows of hog rings on either side. As for the sharp edges around the water tray and such ... at least when I was helping constructing the cages, we did either bend around the pointy ends out of harms way or, what I personally preferred, did cut them off and grind them, so that there wasnīt anything sharp or pointy left. As for the cage sizes. I personally think, that most cages are of a fairly good size. Right, this isnīt Animal Kingdom size but again, compared to most zoos it is equal or, in case of the tigers, even better. It is... or at least was not true, that noone ever cleaned the poop and other mess from inside the cages. What is true, that red-shirts (as was the tour-guide mentioned on that homepage) NEVER are allowed to clean inside the cages by walking into them. Because they are beginners and thus are only allowed to do undangerous work. Once you have proven after having worked for a certain time alongside the senior caretakers, that you are trustworthy and reliable to work around the animals, you are promoted to yellow shirt. Which gives you more responsibility and now, you are allowed to go and work inside the cages, but never alone and the animal has to be in the lockout. And the point mentioned, that animals have to sit "in a small cage for hours on end", where he "does not have room to turn around" is a blatand lie. *Sigh* Anyways, Iīm not continueing here because this mail is already too long. I also donīt want to tell you that everything is perfect at Caroles place. There have been some things during my time, that I personally wouldīve done differently... but I want to show and warn you, that personally and politically motivated people and groups, such as PETA, will try everything to forbid you to keep (your) animals... and in the end it doesnīt matter if weīre talking here about exotic animals or domestic ones like dogs and cats. Just take a closer look at PETAīs own statutes.... Alex. Jungletouch schrieb: > > HI All, > > Here is a petition against Carol Baskins of Big Cat Rescue to get her > placed cleaned up. Only 1000 signatures are needs to force USDA to get > more involved and force her to clean up her place and her animal pens. > It’s time to take some action against Carol for once and her bigoted > attitude. > > Please, please forward this email to ALL exotic list you can. The more > signatures, the better. > > http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/demand-the-usda-cleans-up-big-cat-rescue > > FYI...she is against hybrids too... > > Gary > > 707-501-9649 > > Jungletouch@comcast.net > > www.jungletouchexotics.com > > www.care-of-cats.com > > http://care-of-cats-oncilla.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Felines-L mailing list > Felines-L@catbox.com > http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l > From bearcreekcattery at juno.com Thu Apr 15 07:35:27 2010 From: bearcreekcattery at juno.com (bearcreekcattery) Date: Thu Apr 15 07:36:39 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Carole Baskin-OT Message-ID: <20100415.053541.965.121473@mailpop01.vgs.untd.com> Mr Kurtz.....cage size and construction codes are not generally a matter of concern to the USDA as they primarily regulate animal health, welfare and transfer paperwork. Here in Florida, the Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission regulates cage size and construction. FWC regulations are becoming more stringent; many of us think that the Baskin operation may be behind the times. Baskins has damaged newer, smaller sanctuaries like Bear Creek Feline Center, with her "bullish" tactics. In Bear Creek's 10 years of operation, we have never received a notification of "non compliant issues." from the USDA, FFWCC or US Fish & Wildlife. We hold a total of 5 (five) licenses with these agencies. Yet Baskins employs unethical practices against our Center. Most recently we found it necessary to file an official complaint with google. We prevailed! She was sanctioned by them as she had craftily redirected Bear Creek Feline Center google searches to BCR which is not permitted by google! If one googles Bear Creek Feline Center, even now, more often than not, the BCR sponsored link will pop up as the first result, above our URL Mind you she pays google for this. Makes you wonder what her contributors would think of this use of their donations, doesn't it? As for BCR cages and cleanliness, it is my contention that all Florida licensees should be measured with the same yardstick. Also, Florida licensees are subject to increased scrutiny on cage structural integrity as regulations tighten. As for Carole's disdain for others who provide sanctuary to unwanted felids, she may have issues that might best be resolved after "couch time" with a competent psychologist. In short, Baskin is a master of dirty, unethical operating practices, both within and with out her cages. Independent operators who are largely members of the Feline Conservation Federation are organizing to see her brought into compliance. I would suggest that you be cautious as to those that you champion. Jim Broaddus Bear Creek Feline Center, Inc. Panama City, Florida visit on-line: www.bearcreekfelinecenter.org On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:12:39 +0200 Alexander Kurtz writes: > Hi everyone, > > well, concerning Big Cat Rescue... I have been volunteering there > for > over a year some 10 years ago, when it was still called Wildlife on > Easy > Street. I don?t know, how things have changed there since then and > how > USDA regulations have changed (since I?m living now in Germany), but > > what I know is that some of the critics concerning the cages (and > I?m > talking here about the construction and safety) are totally wrong or > > show some signs of not knowing about the construction itself. How do > I > know? I helped building some of them, not only at B.C.R. but also at > a > zoo in Oklahoma and a different animal facility there. And I have > had > seen what happens if a tree falls ontop of such a cage. > So some facts of the page > http://www.animalsluts.org/bigcatrescue_complaint_baskin.html are > wrong > and of a political and personal agenda. I know, that some have ... > issues ... with Carole, which I won?t comment on since I don?t know > enough. So let?s stay with the cages and things I percieved while > volunteering there, shall we? > It is true, that there are no stakes on the cage. So to give it > stability, it is first of all buried roughly 40-50 cm in the ground > ( > round about 1 1/2 feet). Secondly, the actual form of the cage with > it?s > bendings and round forms adds immensly to the stability. Just > imagine > taking a card of a card game and try having it standing on one of > it?s > sides. It won?t work unless you have at least another card or.... > you > fold or bend that card. Could we have bend the cagewalls to a square > > form to achieve the same stability? Yeah, sure, but we wanted the > cage > to have round, organic, "natural" forms. Anyways, eventhough we have > now > the walls burried into the ground and brought them into form, we > still > need to add the top and some beams running along the top for support > and > giving the upper part of the cage stability. This whole cage is not > a > solid, "good and USDA certified" concrete and steelbar cage, like > you > still see at zoos throughout the country. But nevertheless it is as > rigid and in my opinion better looking and less expensive and > quicker > build cage. In Oklahoma, I had seen a nearby 6 m high tree crash > into > such a cage during a serious thunderstorm. The top and one side of > the > cage did get deformed, but none of the hog rings did jump off nor > did > the cage get pulled out of the ground nor did we have a hole in the > cage. One hog ring is indeed week and cannot withstand a huge force. > A > different option would be to weld the joints. That?s why the > sidepanels > are overlaping by quite some ammount and there are at least 2 rows > of > hog rings on either side. > As for the sharp edges around the water tray and such ... at least > when > I was helping constructing the cages, we did either bend around the > pointy ends out of harms way or, what I personally preferred, did > cut > them off and grind them, so that there wasn?t anything sharp or > pointy left. > As for the cage sizes. I personally think, that most cages are of a > fairly good size. Right, this isn?t Animal Kingdom size but again, > compared to most zoos it is equal or, in case of the tigers, even > better. It is... or at least was not true, that noone ever cleaned > the > poop and other mess from inside the cages. What is true, that > red-shirts > (as was the tour-guide mentioned on that homepage) NEVER are allowed > to > clean inside the cages by walking into them. Because they are > beginners > and thus are only allowed to do undangerous work. Once you have > proven > after having worked for a certain time alongside the senior > caretakers, > that you are trustworthy and reliable to work around the animals, > you > are promoted to yellow shirt. Which gives you more responsibility > and > now, you are allowed to go and work inside the cages, but never > alone > and the animal has to be in the lockout. And the point mentioned, > that > animals have to sit "in a small cage for hours on end", where he > "does > not have room to turn around" is a blatand lie. *Sigh* > Anyways, I?m not continueing here because this mail is already too > long. > I also don?t want to tell you that everything is perfect at Caroles > place. There have been some things during my time, that I personally > > would?ve done differently... but I want to show and warn you, that > personally and politically motivated people and groups, such as > PETA, > will try everything to forbid you to keep (your) animals... and in > the > end it doesn?t matter if we?re talking here about exotic animals or > domestic ones like dogs and cats. Just take a closer look at PETA?s > own > statutes.... > > Alex. > > Jungletouch schrieb: > > > > HI All, > > > > Here is a petition against Carol Baskins of Big Cat Rescue to get > her > > placed cleaned up. Only 1000 signatures are needs to force USDA to > get > > more involved and force her to clean up her place and her animal > pens. > > It?s time to take some action against Carol for once and her > bigoted > > attitude. > > > > Please, please forward this email to ALL exotic list you can. The > more > > signatures, the better. > > > > > http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/demand-the-usda-cleans-up-big-cat-rescue > > > > FYI...she is against hybrids too... > > > > Gary > > > > 707-501-9649 > > > > Jungletouch@comcast.net > > > > www.jungletouchexotics.com > > > > www.care-of-cats.com > > > > http://care-of-cats-oncilla.blogspot.com/ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Felines-L mailing list > > Felines-L@catbox.com > > http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Felines-L mailing list > Felines-L@catbox.com > http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l > ____________________________________________________________ 3.44% APR - Refinance Now $200,000 Mortgage for $898/Month! No Hidden Fees. Refi & Save w/DPR! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc7082bf076927823cst04vuc From Schittzo at aol.com Fri Apr 16 00:05:16 2010 From: Schittzo at aol.com (Schittzo@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 16 00:05:37 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Carole Baskin-OT Message-ID: <88b28.718d4fee.38f94a0c@aol.com> Thank you. I agree. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100416/c0ea5e87/attachment.html From Schittzo at aol.com Fri Apr 16 00:07:00 2010 From: Schittzo at aol.com (Schittzo@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 16 00:07:12 2010 Subject: [FEL-L] Carole Baskin-OT Message-ID: <88bcb.1dd2d95e.38f94a74@aol.com> Thank you. I agree. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20100416/bf73b170/attachment.html