From greatcats at comcast.net Fri Aug 1 08:31:39 2008 From: greatcats at comcast.net (Great Cats) Date: Fri Aug 1 08:34:35 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Question References: Message-ID: <000d01c8f3da$ee27b960$0201a8c0@Judy> Hi all, Just wondering if anyone knows if it is legal for a zoo/sanctuary/private owner to pelt a cat once it has died of natural causes? If so, is it legal to sell the the pelt? What are your opinions on this? JL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080801/adb6ed96/attachment.html From lynnculver at hughes.net Fri Aug 1 12:43:45 2008 From: lynnculver at hughes.net (Lynn Culver) Date: Fri Aug 1 12:44:03 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Question In-Reply-To: <000d01c8f3da$ee27b960$0201a8c0@Judy> Message-ID: It is legal to do so with any non-endangered cats, such as serval or bobcat or lion. It is legal to sell an endangered pelt in-state only - it cannot be advertised, or sold, out of state. However, in the case of tiger, I believe Congress passed a special federal law that prohibits the commerical trade of any tiger body part. It's to stop the Chinese medicine trade, but would apply to the pelt as well. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: felines-l-bounces@catbox.com [mailto:felines-l-bounces@catbox.com]On Behalf Of Great Cats Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:32 AM To: felines-l@catbox.com Subject: [FEL-L] Question Hi all, Just wondering if anyone knows if it is legal for a zoo/sanctuary/private owner to pelt a cat once it has died of natural causes? If so, is it legal to sell the the pelt? What are your opinions on this? JL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080801/0333deae/attachment.html From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Fri Aug 1 16:40:15 2008 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Fri Aug 1 16:40:24 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Question In-Reply-To: <000d01c8f3da$ee27b960$0201a8c0@Judy> Message-ID: <827756.63779.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The short answer is "Yes, they can" as they can verify the provenance of the origins of the animal and can attest to?such by USDA paperwork. The restrictions on trade in goods of endangered wildlife are to prevent?poaching of wild animals. Since USDA-licensee-held animals are inherently NOT wild the products thereof are legal?for trade with the provision that legal attestation to?the origins of the said materials?must accompany the merchandise. ? The only other?exemption to trade in goods?related to endangered species is historical provenance (as in this piece?predates the restrictive legislation) and has to be able to be legally attested?to at?time of import or transfer of ownership. Other restrictions may apply, but generally speaking?this is what occurs. One member of my peripheral family has numerous Buddhist ivory pieces that are the?subject of said regulation, however they all predate both CITES and the US Endangered Species Act by decades in most cases, and by somewhere near?a century in a few cases. All must?have paperwork regarding attestation?of provenance in order to change hands,?ever. ? Tim Fuller President, NEOPOA Bringing fire as the light of reason to mortals and morons for better than two decades. Check out http://www.neopoa.com and become a more informed pet owner. Be a snappy dresser and help animals too! - NEOPOA has an online shop at www.cafepress.com/neopoa --- On Fri, 8/1/08, Great Cats wrote: From: Great Cats Subject: [FEL-L] Question To: felines-l@catbox.com Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 8:31 AM Hi all, ? Just wondering if anyone knows if it is legal for a zoo/sanctuary/private owner to pelt a cat once it has died of natural causes?? If so, is it legal to sell the the pelt?? What are your opinions on this? ? JL_______________________________________________ Felines-L mailing list Felines-L@catbox.com http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080801/96b0aa04/attachment.html From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 8 12:27:44 2008 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Fri Aug 8 12:27:52 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] upcoming show Message-ID: <380-22008858172744375@earthlink.net> Subject: A show to remember... http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/ This Sunday at 7 PM PST the National Geographic channel is airing a special about big cats. They went to the San Francisco Zoo this past January and February when they were still reeling from the events of Christmas. The show airing this weekend includes a re-enactment of what they believe happened that night Although this may be disturbing for many people I wanted you to be aware that it was on in case you are interested. Laura Morin lmorin67@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080808/afb9826e/attachment.html From puma at catbox.com Fri Aug 8 15:08:15 2008 From: puma at catbox.com (Gary Breuckman) Date: Fri Aug 8 15:08:22 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] 2 tiger attacks Message-ID: Sheriffs: 2 tiger attacks show tougher laws needed By BETSY TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer Wednesday, August 6, 2008 (08-06) 08:52 PDT ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Two tiger attacks this week at two different Missouri animal facilities that had both been cited for past problems have law enforcement officials calling for tougher exotic animal laws. On Monday, a 16-year-old worker entered a tiger pen at the Predator World attraction in southwest Missouri to take pictures for a visitor and was attacked by three of the big cats. The boy, Dakoda Ramel, remained in critical condition Tuesday at a Springfield hospital. There was no immediate response to a call seeking an update on his condition Wednesday. Just the day before, a separate tiger attack in eastern Missouri cost a 26-year-old volunteer part of his leg. Jacob Barr's leg below the knee was amputated after he was attacked by a tiger Sunday at the Wesa-A-Geh-Ya animal facility in Warrenton. Barr faced more surgery Wednesday at a St. Louis hospital. Federal officials have pointed to problems at both facilities. A 2007 U.S. Department of Agriculture inspection at Predator World noted three instances of animals getting out of their pens: two wolves that escaped into the community; a grizzly bear that remained on the property but was able to kill a tiger; and a fox that was hit by a car. The Wesa-A-Geh-Ya facility, which used to have a license to exhibit its animals through the USDA, surrendered that license in 2003 and then had it revoked after a number of violations involving animal care were alleged. Critics say a patchwork of laws means no single agency in the state or nation is responsible for law enforcement and inspections related to exotic animals like large carnivores. One of the tiger owners, while deeply upset by the tiger attack, said she thinks existing regulations contributed to the problem. Warren County Sheriff Kevin Harrison said he'd like the state to improve exotic animal laws, but in recent weeks he proposed changes at the county level. "I think it's such a politically charged topic: What do you do with these exotic animals?" he said. Both Harrison and Stone County Sheriff Richard Hill, where the other tiger attack took place, said in Missouri owners are supposed to register their exotic animals with their sheriff's department. But they said the law doesn't specify how soon after possessing an animal someone must register. The law also lacks requirements for proper enclosures, or how often the registration needs to be updated. The Missouri Department of Conservation visits Wesa-A-Geh-Ya at least annually to check on animal species that are native to the state, like mountain lions, wolves and a bear - though the wolves at Wesa-A-Geh-Ya are Arctic wolves. "There's never been any problem with them mistreating the animals or problems with the enclosures," said Dan Zarlenga, a spokesman for the Department of Conservation. But the agency does not inspect animals not native to Missouri, like the tigers. Sandra Smith, one of the owners of Wesa-A-Geh-Ya, said existing regulations are confusing and problematic. She said she had wanted to make cages more secure but was told she couldn't without a local permit. "If there's going to be more regulations, put someone on the job who knows what they're doing," she said. Smith said she's getting out of animal care altogether. She said she's started looking for new homes for the 49 animals on her property. Harrison said Wesa-A-Geh-Ya owners needed to take responsibility for the tiger attack, saying they were the ones who decided to house wild animals on the site behind chain-link fences. Predator World did not respond to requests for comment. The USDA report on Predator World, provided to The Associated Press by the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, notes that two of the previous animal incidents at the facility occurred during storms. The fox escaped after a tree fell on its enclosure during an ice storm. The bear also escaped from its enclosure when a tree limb fell after a storm "allowing it to enter the enjoining enclosure and kill an adult female tiger." Hill said that if exotic animal owners don't register the creatures, authorities will not have accurate, updated information about what potentially dangerous animals are residing in their counties during severe weather. From puma at catbox.com Fri Aug 8 15:19:01 2008 From: puma at catbox.com (Gary Breuckman) Date: Fri Aug 8 15:19:03 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Exotic animal facility to close after attack Message-ID: Exotic animal facility to close after attack Jacob Barr Jacob Barr (left) rests Tuesday while his father keeps him company at Barnes-Jewish Hospital. ( Jordan Wilson/P-D) By Jordan Wilson ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH 08/06/2008 Jacob Barr awakened slowly, opened his eyes, and pulled off the white sheet covering his legs. "As of Sunday morning, I had a leg," Barr said Tuesday, pointing to his right leg, amputated just below the knee. "Now, there's nothing there." Barr, 26, of Warrenton, is recovering at Barnes-Jewish Hospital after he was attacked by a tiger Sunday at the Wesa-A-Geh-Ya exotic animal farm near Warrenton. He faces additional surgery today to remove more of the leg to just above the knee. "I didn't even want to work there, I was just helping a buddy," Barr said. Because of the mauling, Wesa's founders said Tuesday afternoon they would close their facility after more than 20 years of operation. The facility will give its animals away to three different sanctuaries within the next month. "It's a number of things, but Jacob was the straw that broke the camel's back," said Ken Smith, 51, who started Wesa with his wife, Sandra, 58. "And I don't think I can fight the fight anymore. I think this has taken the life out of me." Sandra Smith said the attack was the first time an animal mauled a volunteer. Wesa-A-Geh-Ya means "cat lady" in her native Cherokee language. Wesa, which houses more than 50 lions and tigers along with other abandoned animals, has come under government scrutiny and criticism by animal rights groups in recent years. It was open to the public until the Smiths surrendered their exhibitors license to the USDA in late 2003 in the midst of a federal investigation. Both have been placed on probation for violations that included failing to keep cages properly locked and failing to register some animals. The Smiths blame some neighbors and former volunteers for much of their trouble. Because of constant complaints and allegations of abuse, the Smiths say they were unable to add on to their animals' cages because the Warren County planning and zoning board denied their requests. Sandra Smith said they wanted to add tops to their cages, which could have prevented the mauling, but were denied by planning and zoning. Officials at the Warren County Commission could not be reached Tuesday but issued a statement saying that since 1995, the commission has "no record of any conditional use permit for cages or perimeter fence" from the Smiths. Sandra Smith said as soon as Wesa finds its animals new homes, she and her husband will also leave town. "Warrenton citizens won. We've thrown the towel in," she said. "I've got animals out there I love as much as some of my grandkids, probably." Jim Barr said his son has that same love of animals. But for some reason, Barr said, animals never seemed to return the love to Jacob. One time, Barr said Jacob's brothers were playing roughly with a golden retriever. Jacob was on the other side of the room, but the agitated dog bolted past his brothers and bit Jacob instead. He needed more than a dozen stitches. Sunday was Jacob Barr's first trip to Wesa-A-Geh-Ya. He was helping a friend who was a volunteer, his father said. While Barr and another worker were cleaning a tiger's cage, the animal jumped a 12-foot fence and got hold of Barr. The 800-pound tiger "tossed Jacob around like a dish rag," his father said. The tiger was shot and killed to end the attack. Initially, Wesa workers told authorities Barr was attacked by a pit bull. Warren County Sheriff Kevin Harrison said the story changed, though, when Barr's father told the department a tiger attacked his son, not a dog. Then, Wesa workers described the attack, Harrison said. Sandra Smith said the cover-up was done to keep her animals. Jim Barr says his son never would have gone to Wesa if he would have known the conditions of the cages. The Smiths remain horrified at the attack. "I'd kill every animal out there if Jacob could have his legs back," Ken Smith said. From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 8 16:13:15 2008 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Fri Aug 8 16:13:22 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] 2 tiger attacks Message-ID: <380-22008858211315796@earthlink.net> If a Bear and a Tiger were to get into a fight who would win...? Answer to one of those stupid questions... dang... > [Original Message] > From: Gary Breuckman > To: > Date: 8/8/2008 1:11:59 PM > Subject: [FEL-L] 2 tiger attacks > > Sheriffs: 2 tiger attacks show tougher laws needed > > By BETSY TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 > > (08-06) 08:52 PDT ST. LOUIS (AP) -- > > Two tiger attacks this week at two different Missouri animal > facilities that had both been cited for past problems have law > enforcement officials calling for tougher exotic animal laws. > > On Monday, a 16-year-old worker entered a tiger pen at the Predator > World attraction in southwest Missouri to take pictures for a visitor > and was attacked by three of the big cats. The boy, Dakoda Ramel, > remained in critical condition Tuesday at a Springfield hospital. > There was no immediate response to a call seeking an update on his > condition Wednesday. > > Just the day before, a separate tiger attack in eastern Missouri cost > a 26-year-old volunteer part of his leg. Jacob Barr's leg below the > knee was amputated after he was attacked by a tiger Sunday at the > Wesa-A-Geh-Ya animal facility in Warrenton. Barr faced more surgery > Wednesday at a St. Louis hospital. > > Federal officials have pointed to problems at both facilities. A 2007 > U.S. Department of Agriculture inspection at Predator World noted > three instances of animals getting out of their pens: two wolves that > escaped into the community; a grizzly bear that remained on the > property but was able to kill a tiger; and a fox that was hit by a > car. > > The Wesa-A-Geh-Ya facility, which used to have a license to exhibit > its animals through the USDA, surrendered that license in 2003 and > then had it revoked after a number of violations involving animal > care were alleged. > > Critics say a patchwork of laws means no single agency in the state > or nation is responsible for law enforcement and inspections related > to exotic animals like large carnivores. One of the tiger owners, > while deeply upset by the tiger attack, said she thinks existing > regulations contributed to the problem. > > Warren County Sheriff Kevin Harrison said he'd like the state to > improve exotic animal laws, but in recent weeks he proposed changes > at the county level. > > "I think it's such a politically charged topic: What do you do with > these exotic animals?" he said. > > Both Harrison and Stone County Sheriff Richard Hill, where the other > tiger attack took place, said in Missouri owners are supposed to > register their exotic animals with their sheriff's department. But > they said the law doesn't specify how soon after possessing an animal > someone must register. The law also lacks requirements for proper > enclosures, or how often the registration needs to be updated. > > The Missouri Department of Conservation visits Wesa-A-Geh-Ya at least > annually to check on animal species that are native to the state, > like mountain lions, wolves and a bear - though the wolves at > Wesa-A-Geh-Ya are Arctic wolves. > > "There's never been any problem with them mistreating the animals or > problems with the enclosures," said Dan Zarlenga, a spokesman for the > Department of Conservation. > > But the agency does not inspect animals not native to Missouri, like > the tigers. > > Sandra Smith, one of the owners of Wesa-A-Geh-Ya, said existing > regulations are confusing and problematic. She said she had wanted to > make cages more secure but was told she couldn't without a local > permit. > > "If there's going to be more regulations, put someone on the job who > knows what they're doing," she said. > > Smith said she's getting out of animal care altogether. She said > she's started looking for new homes for the 49 animals on her > property. > > Harrison said Wesa-A-Geh-Ya owners needed to take responsibility for > the tiger attack, saying they were the ones who decided to house wild > animals on the site behind chain-link fences. > > Predator World did not respond to requests for comment. > > The USDA report on Predator World, provided to The Associated Press > by the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, notes that two of > the previous animal incidents at the facility occurred during storms. > > The fox escaped after a tree fell on its enclosure during an ice > storm. The bear also escaped from its enclosure when a tree limb fell > after a storm "allowing it to enter the enjoining enclosure and kill > an adult female tiger." > > Hill said that if exotic animal owners don't register the creatures, > authorities will not have accurate, updated information about what > potentially dangerous animals are residing in their counties during > severe weather. > > _______________________________________________ > Felines-L mailing list > Felines-L@catbox.com > http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Sun Aug 10 02:16:49 2008 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Sun Aug 10 02:17:00 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Lions on Craigslist Message-ID: <557281.43639.qm@web30502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Found this stuff... probably someone would like 'em. http://columbus.craigslist.org/grd/788042250.html Tim Fuller Bringing fire as the light of reason to mortals and morons for better than two decades. Check out http://www.neopoa.com and become a more informed pet owner. Be a snappy dresser and help animals too! - NEOPOA has an online shop at www.cafepress.com/neopoa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080810/a010edd9/attachment.html From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 13 12:56:37 2008 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Wed Aug 13 12:57:07 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Lymes Diesease in cats Message-ID: <380-220088313175637171@earthlink.net> Anyone have expereince with this? Laura Morin lmorin67@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080813/940ff6ff/attachment.html From kfilseth at dishmail.net Thu Aug 14 19:05:53 2008 From: kfilseth at dishmail.net (Kristin Filseth) Date: Thu Aug 14 19:13:19 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Re: Felines-L Digest, Vol 26, Issue 5 References: <200808141700.m7EH0L7q010914@serv.breuckman.com> Message-ID: <002d01c8fe6a$ba7d4720$e5b86a4b@30379WL> Hi Laura, There's no evidence I know of to suggest Lyme Disease is a clinical entity in domestic cats. If exposed, they develop antibodies to the organism but it is not supposed to be associated with symptoms or illness. One study actually injected cats with an infective dose of it and they didn't get ill. I am not aware of reports regarding it in exotic cats but I don't follow that literature very closely -- for example canine distemper affects lions I think but not domestic cats, can't completely rule out Lyme could affect one or more wild cat species. If there was a particular domestic cat in question that is suspected, they might be able to send off a test for Lyme antibodies. (Though I think virtually all vets would think this a waste of money in a domestic cat due to Lyme not being considered illness causing in cats, would say use the money to look for diseases that cats do get.) The ticks that carry Lyme can also carry plenty of other little bugs that are known to be bad for cats. Kristin > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:56:37 -0700 > From: "Laura Morin" > Subject: [FEL-L] Lymes Diesease in cats > To: "felines-l@catbox.com" > Message-ID: <380-220088313175637171@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Anyone have expereince with this? > > > Laura Morin > lmorin67@earthlink.net > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080813/940ff6ff/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Felines-L mailing list > Felines-L@catbox.com > http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l > > > End of Felines-L Digest, Vol 26, Issue 5 > **************************************** > > > From exmoor9928541 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 15 22:53:25 2008 From: exmoor9928541 at yahoo.com (ben willis) Date: Fri Aug 15 22:53:35 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Strange Texas Animal In-Reply-To: <002d01c8fe6a$ba7d4720$e5b86a4b@30379WL> Message-ID: <275453.70679.qm@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This isn't exactly feline, but this link contains the video of a strange animal filmed by a police camera in Texas. I would be interested in any opinions as to what this animal might be. Look closely at the head in the brief part that shows the profile. The article also has some still images of other animals which were confirmed as coyotes. I don't consider those as being related to this story. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqebUluWFM4 Ben Willis From Jungletouch at comcast.net Fri Aug 15 23:46:49 2008 From: Jungletouch at comcast.net (Jungletouch) Date: Fri Aug 15 23:47:07 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Strange Texas Animal In-Reply-To: <275453.70679.qm@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <002d01c8fe6a$ba7d4720$e5b86a4b@30379WL> <275453.70679.qm@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03fd01c8ff5b$18bf0da0$183d154c@gary> Hi Ben, These are strange stories indeed. If you go back to the video and click one of several videos at the right, you can learn more. One carcass that had been examined last year was shown to have severe mange. So, it is believe anyways. It is said to be a Coyote, but that is hard for me to believe. Coyotes do NOT have skulls like the couple that have been found. Definitely a mystery. Gary 707-874-1146 Jungletouch@comcast.net www.jungletouchexotics.com Web Design Web Hosting Graphics Design Magazine Ad Design -----Original Message----- From: felines-l-bounces@catbox.com [mailto:felines-l-bounces@catbox.com] On Behalf Of ben willis Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:53 PM To: felines-l@catbox.com Subject: [FEL-L] Strange Texas Animal This isn't exactly feline, but this link contains the video of a strange animal filmed by a police camera in Texas. I would be interested in any opinions as to what this animal might be. Look closely at the head in the brief part that shows the profile. The article also has some still images of other animals which were confirmed as coyotes. I don't consider those as being related to this story. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqebUluWFM4 Ben Willis _______________________________________________ Felines-L mailing list Felines-L@catbox.com http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 19:15:21 2008 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Sat Aug 16 09:08:21 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] FW: Please Help Us Spread the Word about Expo Message-ID: <380-22008861601521984@earthlink.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2008 Expo Flyer_LowRes.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 208349 bytes Desc: 2008 Expo Flyer_LowRes.pdf Url : http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080815/d94f77f5/2008ExpoFlyer_LowRes-0001.pdf From orion2185 at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 20 16:37:35 2008 From: orion2185 at sbcglobal.net (Mike) Date: Wed Aug 20 16:37:46 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Looking to place tiger Message-ID: <7AD2AFAD-6FFA-4003-ACEA-4DC9542CC8A6@sbcglobal.net> please post this to the group as I don't know what else to do Hi Looking to place a 8 year old Male Bengal Tiger. New legislation is about to pass...not allowing you to board your animals at other peoples property. In other words, you must own all animals on your property. Since we board him..we need to find a good home for him. Before we are FORCED to. He has been in the entertainment industry since birth. So he is use to being around people, walked, and play/interact with on a daily basis. We now tour quite a bit and not able (due to all the red tape) to travel with him. We spent many years out of the country (with the animals) so we sold are property with compound. As we were expecting not to need it anymore. I'm a firm believer that we you get an animal...you get one for life. However, due to circumstance with legal issues and new legislation we have no choice. zoning laws are much different these days...making it tough to find a place. Plus with current market conditions...it's hard to get approved to buy real estate (regardless of income ect..) Really hate to place him. But looks like we have no other option. As we have been trying to solve this issue since late 2007. It will be at my cost would have to see your place and check the quality of life he will have. Just to worn you...he is spoiled! From lmorin67 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 20 16:54:24 2008 From: lmorin67 at earthlink.net (Laura Morin) Date: Wed Aug 20 16:54:32 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Looking to place tiger Message-ID: <380-220088320215424468@earthlink.net> why dont you just sign him over to the people where he is being borded and not move him? They will 'own' him and you can still visit and make an agreement with the people to still care for him.... > [Original Message] > From: Mike > To: > Date: 8/20/2008 2:37:38 PM > Subject: [FEL-L] Looking to place tiger > > please post this to the group > as I don't know what else to do > > > Hi > > Looking to place a 8 year old Male Bengal Tiger. > New legislation is about to pass...not allowing you to board your > animals at other peoples property. In other words, you must own all > animals on your property. > Since we board him..we need to find a good home for him. Before we > are FORCED to. > > He has been in the entertainment industry since birth. So he is use > to being around people, walked, and play/interact with on a daily basis. > > We now tour quite a bit and not able (due to all the red tape) to > travel with him. > We spent many years out of the country (with the animals) so we sold > are property with compound. As we were expecting not to need it anymore. > > I'm a firm believer that we you get an animal...you get one for life. > > However, due to circumstance with legal issues and new legislation we > have no choice. > zoning laws are much different these days...making it tough to find a > place. > Plus with current market conditions...it's hard to get approved to > buy real estate (regardless of income ect..) > > Really hate to place him. But looks like we have no other option. As > we have been trying to solve this issue since late 2007. > > It will be at my cost > would have to see your place and check the quality of life he will > have. Just to worn you...he is spoiled! > > > _______________________________________________ > Felines-L mailing list > Felines-L@catbox.com > http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l From TweetyPaws1 at aol.com Thu Aug 21 08:19:01 2008 From: TweetyPaws1 at aol.com (TweetyPaws1@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 21 12:33:26 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Looking to place tiger Message-ID: Try contacting Joe at _gwexoticanimalfound@lycos.com_ (mailto:gwexoticanimalfound@lycos.com) please post this to the group as I don't know what else to do Hi Looking to place a 8 year old Male Bengal Tiger. New legislation is about to pass...not allowing you to board your animals at other peoples property. In other words, you must own all animals on your property. Since we board him..we need to find a good home for him. Before we are FORCED to. He has been in the entertainment industry since birth. So he is use to being around people, walked, and play/interact with on a daily basis. We now tour quite a bit and not able (due to all the red tape) to travel with him. We spent many years out of the country (with the animals) so we sold are property with compound. As we were expecting not to need it anymore. I'm a firm believer that we you get an animal...you get one for life. However, due to circumstance with legal issues and new legislation we have no choice. zoning laws are much different these days...making it tough to find a place. Plus with current market conditions...it's hard to get approved to buy real estate (regardless of income ect..) Really hate to place him. But looks like we have no other option. As we have been trying to solve this issue since late 2007. It will be at my cost would have to see your place and check the quality of life he will have. Just to worn you...he is spoiled! _______________________________________________ Felines-L mailing list Felines-L@catbox.com http://www.breuckman.com/mailman/listinfo/felines-l **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080821/47517e1c/attachment.html From orion2185 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 21 13:28:45 2008 From: orion2185 at sbcglobal.net (Mike) Date: Thu Aug 21 13:29:00 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] re: looking to place tiger Message-ID: I received this email... Below you will find the answers please post to group. So I don't have to answers the same questions again. 1). Is there a problem about giving the animal to the place he's boarded at, as suggested by Laura Morin (y/n is sufficient) 2). If yes, is it a matter of (a) boarding individual not wanting additional animal. (b) you prefer the animal be placed with someone else. (c) financial matters for boarding individual. or (d) financial matters for yourself. (e) something not mentioned above. No worries whatever the reason, I just kinda need to know where things stand. 3). Would you be able to transport the tiger to new location? (y/n) 4). Are you (a) USDA licensed or (b) just own the animal under the pet animal permission of Nevada? 5). I presume from your comment about the animal being used to interaction that they're decently trained. One thing of concern would be the animal's health thus far. Please select one of the following: (a) no known adverse health/behavior conditions; (b) no known health condition, known adverse behavioral condition(s); (c) known minor adverse health condition; (d) known major adverse health condition; (e) something not mentioned above. 6). Is he (a) intact or (b) altered? 7). If (A) above, has he been used in a breeding program? (y/n) 8). Is he: (a) de-clawed; (b) de-fanged; (c) both; (d) neither. 9). Does he have a current cage-mate (y/n) 10). If Yes, does cage-mate need to be moved with him (y/n) 11). If No, does he (a) prefer solitary living; (b) is selective about cage-mates; (c) don't know/never had the opportunity; (d) other. I do have someone in mind in Nevada (I do apologize not mentioning them by name but want to check with them first as you know how some people can get when contacted by strangers regarding exotics, big cats especially) but they'd ask me at least some of the questions above so if I were to hit them up with a "do you want..." I'd want my facts in order. One final question... you mentioned that the animals had traveled with you and such.... 12). Is he used to (a) just his enclosure and normal arena-type actions; (b) "house privileges", as in allowed into your trailer (when touring) or domicile (when home) under supervision; (c) both a and b; (d) other. 13). One further thing would be a matter of timeframe... sooner than forever, I'm sure. But would you consider this (a) urgent; (b) rather a place for him soon; (c) looking but not hurried; or (d) just fishing for options. Thank you in advance for the responses to these questions and hope I can help. Should also note that I'm the personal assistant of the owner. I'm writing this on his behalf. 1) The place where the tiger is boarded at is no longer in the "business" he had tigers, lions, leopards of his own. He is now in the process of placing his last animals. needless to say that's the bottle line of why we are looking to place this tiger. We are out of options Plus the conditions of the facility were not to our standards We had them at a indoor/outdoor facility with large pool inside air conditioning, tvs, music, and the people were passionate about their and our animals. While we were overseas...they sold their place and animals so that's how we ended up at our current boarding facility 3) Yes we could transport the animal we will also give you his transport cage. It was originally Gunther Gebel transport cage since we travel by air allot...this meets all airline requirements and USDA 4) We hold a USDA class C license I personal hold a USDI too however, I still think there are limitations to where I can take an animal it takes some time to get the proper authorization thought 9-18 months (based on past experiences) 5) Very well trained, transport-cage (transferring), leash trained ect.. though no matter what...it's still a wild animal He has no heath issues He does like to lick allot. Every now and then coating some of his food with mineral oil helps to get the hair out of the system. 6) Intact could breed if you wanted too but since he was a "working" cat...we chose not too 7) see above no 8) Front claws are removed still has back claws no alteration to the teeth-intact 9) never had a cage mate in other words, never shared the same cage with another animal. Though we have always had a number of other big cats. They were always keep in close proximity to each other. since we interacted with the animal on a daily basis. We would be in the cage and did not wish to complicate matters with a second animal to look out for this give us the opportunity for a closer relationship with each animal 10) His closest bud is already been placed she was a white tiger..who is going to a good friend and will still be able to visit 11) see above 12) Use to just about everything transferring of cages, leash walking, behaviors, Magic show "duties", ect... they has always had a specially built compound were ever we were. We have had a close relationship with him. Handled daily ect.. still a wild animal- you can take them out of the wild, but you can't take the wild out of them 13) Trying to figure out what we can do naturally we would like to solve this issue..before we are forced to -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080821/67a76fc7/attachment.html From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Thu Aug 21 21:49:20 2008 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Thu Aug 21 21:49:29 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] Ursine questions Message-ID: <530038.37945.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Heyo everyone, ? Recently, amidst a phone conversation with a friend who is computer-inept and not connected to the internet, I was asked a few questions which I was at a loss to answer due to my lack of experience with bruins.? If anyone out there on any of these lists (or any to which this message has been crossposted by others - yes, please do crosspost) has direct experience raising and/or training bears (cubs or adults)?please contact me privately at prometheus_horse@yahoo.com as I have questions about bears as well as those asked by my friend that I was unable to answer. My typical ursine-related contact is out of touch at the moment due to a complicated move dictated by family-related issues. Thanks in advance. ? Tim Fuller President, NEOPOA Bringing fire as the light of reason to mortals and morons for better than two decades. Check out http://www.neopoa.com and become a more informed pet owner. Be a snappy dresser and help animals too! - NEOPOA has an online shop at www.cafepress.com/neopoa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080821/79399352/attachment.html From khunny at aol.com Fri Aug 22 14:46:33 2008 From: khunny at aol.com (khunny@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 22 14:47:06 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] zoo cutting back-Georgia Message-ID: <8CAD2A6EA5BFF0C-1918-18A9@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> We are definitely cuttting back do to the economy and drought in our area. If you are interested in any of the following animals please contact us. We will only speak to individuals with a USDA License. White Siberian Tiger male and female-proven Bengal female-proven Primates Elk herd-? the herd must stay in Georgia Please call C.W. Wathen at 678-859-6820. Thank you, Kim Hunter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080822/27f1068b/attachment.html From prometheus_horse at yahoo.com Sat Aug 23 00:29:22 2008 From: prometheus_horse at yahoo.com (Prometheus Horse) Date: Sat Aug 23 07:54:21 2008 Subject: [FEL-L] KC MO - Wolfdogs stolen from owner's property Message-ID: <107397.84352.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi there everyone. As many of you may or may not know there's been a recent rash of exotics-related "incidents" occurring in Missouri, including the rumblings of ban legislation. In addition to what was in the news is a small item that touches home with me. A couple I know have had their wolfdogs stolen from their yard on Tuesday. Yes, I know it's Friday but I didn't hear about it until now. Between caring for a disabled relative, being semi-disabled themselves and working, they're at the end of their frazzled rope looking for the dogs as well. Their two dog-dogs weren't lifted, just the two low content wolfdogs. This is Hyjinx (or "Jinx") http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/2724612403_3e204cd75e.jpg?v=0 and this is Kira http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/2724606287_34b21c9282.jpg?v=0 With all the AR hooey flying around the couple owning them are loath to subject themselves to the muck-slinging that would result from going to the news media when they're terribly overworked, frazzled, and psychologically beat-up already. Please contact me at prometheus_horse@yahoo.com or prometheus_horse on Yahoo Internet Messenger if you see either of these animals. They're both female, intact, just over a year old. Kira is more outgoing, Jinx more submissive/reserved. Both quite playful and used to being around both other dogs and humans. They're littermates and haven't been apart from each other a day in their lives. Crossposting of this message strongly encouraged. Please help me bring these girls back to their loving family. And in case anyone was wondering... they were stolen while the gentleman was at work and the lady of the house was tending to her invalid/disabled amputee mother (who is living with them). Just poof, gone from the yard. They have been watching the local (KC/St Joe) classifieds for someone trying to sell them, Craigslist ads, and have been to the local shelters on the MO side of the river every day since they disappeared. These are personal friends of mine and I have watched Kira and Jinx grow up from little fuzzballs that'd fit in a coffee mug. Thanks for any help anyone out there can provide. Tim Fuller President, NEOPOA and fellow wolfdog owner. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.breuckman.com/pipermail/felines-l/attachments/20080822/109f2b9c/attachment.html