[FEL-L] Hey Barry and list,

[Brian Werner]

Thanks for the insight Barry,

No I am not trying to start anything further. My only points are that these so called experts need to stop putting misinformation out so that everyone here can first start getting good information. I wasn't even initially going to post but that damn declaw crap is enough to hurt the cats that I had to share what I know. I was asking about experience levels, etc because if someone is posting about tigers or big cats than I want to know for certain that they are well versed and know the subject because others here may not question this. People might come here as one thing and turn out to be something else only to hand out misinformation and then some new owner goes and follows this poor advice and wham a big cat is displaced or put down because it cant walk, etc.

It makes me no difference _aside from helping the big cats themselves_ if people choose not to listen when they are handed good information because I am not even invested in the same manner (meaning I already have big cats and know how to care for them etc.) I am not here to try and gather basics but rather hope to share what I already do know. I have my roles and self worth laid before me here, Now in that I am not to concerned because most here are either involved with the little cats or not holding any cats at all. The real concern for me is to see that no more big cats are suffering from mistakes of the people that caused them in the past. If someone really wants to learn about big cats there is a few people here that have them who can help, but make sure that the advice is good strong advice. If someone says that you should declaw a big cat go to the other side of this and see what might go wrong from this action and then determine who is correct and who is not. After all if this is your first big cat most of you will stop going in with them once they are grown and even if not very few will even have to work the big cats. You never know, the cat may decide that it doesn't want or need the contact with you as well. It's not like we just say oh, I can walk with tigers and I can always walk with the same tigers time and time again, sometimes these cats say screw you, leave me along I just want to be goofy and eat food. So why assume that this is good information when you have a few here that do work with big cats every day telling you otherwise? 

But here is where I am really coming from: I am coming in based upon my experience with big cats and my relationships with tigers and legitimate handlers of tigers. You dont have to agree with me nor my so called "mentally challenged mind" as Barry put it but if you dig deep enough and listen to what I am saying, listen closely and read between the lines you'll find that if it involves tigers and that I might actually know what I am talking about. Look I know declaw is bad for the big cats, that is as simple as it gets. Now in this I have no problem admitting that I dont really know much about little cats at all and to be honest I only know a little bit about lions (I have 4), less about cougars (2)and leopards (2 of these as well) but I do know a lot on tigers (29), much more than I can write in a few posts here. I keep real busy so posting is often short and to the point except now it has become a book). You wont see me carrying on about little cats in the same manner that many do on big cats when they have none. Nor will I explore things that I dont work with. An example I am not a broker so I wouldn't be able to tell you the costs of felines. People who do not work directly with big cats shouldn't say that they do either and they also shouldn't put out misinformation.

As for (our nameless 50-year expert) she is wrong again in recent posts. She "heard" this or she has "heard" that but she knows little about me other than what some nuts may say (hearsay). 

I left Ohio in 1996 because I already had land in Texas that I could develop my current facility on. The land in Ohio at that time was $10k an acre and I already owned 25-acres in Texas since _1989_ which was bought when I was in the service (home on leave). I also didnt want to crack ice every winter. I was born in Ohio and have family there so I went there with the intent to relocate with one tiger (1995), after I seen the land market and all that snow and ice I decided Texas was a better place for what I wanted to do especially since I already owned 25-acres in Texas. By the way, I have learned, If you ever have big cats and any of you move to another state these gossipers will all start off saying that you got kicked out of this state or that one, well thats just silliness in itself, Have you really seen the states kick people out? But wait; it gets better here in my case, I can even prove this real easy here: my foundation "Tiger Missing Link" (www.tigerlink.org) is still an Ohio charter/corporation which is operating as an foreign entity in Texas under it's registered Texas charter. Tiger Creek is a DBA (assumed name) for the foundation in Ohio. I just attended the conference in Ohio and did you know that THEY had the entire States Entrances barricaded to stop me from coming back in to Ohio? No I am just joking, I drove straight in with no problems. I may even move my corporate office to Dayton Ohio, seems to be centered for upcoming legislation involving tigers, etc. Currently we are spearheaded in Wooster Ohio. But the point here is that if Ohio had "ran" me off they wouldn't have my corporation still in Good Standing.

The other issues that she points to are from Betty Young in Arkansas, well I dont have to say much here. All of those whom have met Mrs Young know how she is. Don't take me wrong Betty knows tigers and I learned a lot about tigers by just talking to her over the phone alone. She is just hard to work with at times but I guess that there is nothing wrong in that itself. But no-names statements wont hold much truth even under trial.

Now if no-name is wrong on these 2 recent items that she posted than God knows what else she is wrong in? I guess that it is a viable option to try and attack ones credibility. The problem here is I have a lot of credibility and she doesn't have any.

Does this make better sense? I am usually in a hurry and while I know what I want to say I tend to post short and to the point. I certainly hope it clears things up as I went a little further in to my sleep time to do so but if not I am ready and of course willing to discuss this via the list over the weekend and if need be I can take vacation next week so to continue further as needed. I really think declawing big cats is horrible and would share these cats problems if you'd like to come here to Tiger Creek and see first hand. If you need air fare money to do so let me know and I'll try to help make this possible.

okay enough- good nite cat people and non cat people and anyone else here.

Brian Werner

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:48:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry <darksidhe_of_avalon at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [FEL-L] Scarlett Somers Bellingham 
To: felines-l at catbox.com
Message-ID: <20060811234857.74977.qmail at web52608.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hey Brian,

 It just looks like your trying to start another argument or something and/or put people on the defensive.  I have to ask, without meaning offense do you actually enjoy starting fights and in all seriousness are you mentally handicapped?  Abused as a child or something?  
 
 Honestly I don't think anyone is going to bother giving you the info as its just more ammo for your offensive comments.  I know you can make adult posts, you made a decent post just yesterday with valid information.  But then you revert right back to being confrontational and looking for a fight in an attempt to make yourself sound like the end all know it all of the cats.  
 
 I really am not trying to attack you here I'm just making an observation and trying to put things in a way you might actually listen to.  If you’re really do want people to listen to what you have to say, (which is what I think you want) stop the personal attacks and just go with facts and back those up with a reference.  
 
 We all want to learn here and to be honest no one really gives a damn who has what credentials or who has the most big cats etc.  Everyone just wants to talk about the cats that we all love and enjoy being around.  I'm sure you have a lot to contribute as does Jan and everyone else.  Just stop attacking people and everyone might actually take the time to read what you have to say.  As it stands now most people see your name and click delete.
 
 Barry